Current status UPDATE: Its worse than expected...

"ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability" (italianjobr53)
10/10/2020 at 19:25 • Filed to: C5Z

Update: its showed a cam position sensor and TPS error. Its got fuel and spark. We pulled the intake manifold and bumped the crank, none of the valves show any movement :( So most probably the timing chain is gone, worst case is it bent the valves and damaged the pistons...gonna pull the heads next and see what we got. I guess winter started earlier for me with this project...

Vette has had an electrical issue, waiting for a tow now...

DISCUSSION (40)

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 14:04

Sorry to hear that, electrical gremlins are the worst. What are the symptoms?

facw > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 14:06

Doesn’t sound like you have enough current at all.

Dash-doorhandle-6 cyl none the richer > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 14:15

Is that general Tao chicken?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 14:15

Whoa. PCM gave it up entirely? That’s pretty odd.

Good luck. And now I’m hungry

BeaterGT > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 15:34

Noooo! What kind of issue?

(Dat ass tho. ..)

PowderHound > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 19:28

At least you have foods

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 19:29

That sucks, good luck.

Beefchips > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 19:32

Jesus H W Christ sorry bro :(

At least you got some food...??

Brickman > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 19:53

Damn!!! hopefully it isnt too bad

atfsgeoff > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 20:04

Big oof. Timing chains aren't a typical failure point on LS1s, are they?

Jb boin > atfsgeoff
10/10/2020 at 20:14

If i recall correctly there is a key/pin to align the sprocket that might be more likely than the chain itself breaking .

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > atfsgeoff
10/10/2020 at 20:23

No. I’ve got literally a dozen LS/LQs around here. NEVER see a broken timing chain. Ever.

Pin break is more likely.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 20:23

Unless it’s wildly mod’ded valve damage is very unlikely with non-interference design.... with stock engine in that generation. No VVT, no interference.

OTOH, it’s strange to turn the crank and to see no valve action up today.

I’ve got millions of miles on our LS and LQ engines and have never broken a timing chain. So my money’s on pin or sprocket drive failure.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Dash-doorhandle-6 cyl none the richer
10/10/2020 at 20:26

Heh. That was my first question too... “hmm, pity about the car. ARe you going to finish that entree?”

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
10/10/2020 at 20:31

Forums say that it could be the sprocket baking out...

Also, people talking bout LS1/6 chains breaking when they are raced.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
10/10/2020 at 20:32

Its finished! It was orange chicken btw

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
10/10/2020 at 20:33

Its an interference motor

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > atfsgeoff
10/10/2020 at 20:36

Apparently people have had that happen if they are raced...

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Beefchips
10/10/2020 at 20:37

Thanks...

Beefchips > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 20:39

It’s the literal least I can do. If you’re in the PNW hit me up and I can give you more than just moral support :)

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 20:44

Damn, that sucks man...keep us apprised! :(

Just Jeepin' > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 21:15

I drove your favorite highway for you today, since you couldn’t.

Kinja'd!!!

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Beefchips
10/10/2020 at 21:19

Appreciate it! I was gonna do a trip to the west coast this winter to meet up with some friends, but thats not happening now...

(I’m in Indiana btw)

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
10/10/2020 at 21:19

Will do!

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Just Jeepin'
10/10/2020 at 21:20

Yeeeeaah! Did they fix 135? They had gravel all over the place when we last went there..

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 21:22

They’re always sold out of that!

Beefchips > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 21:23

Thats a little far! If you do make out here we should go driving, I know some great roads

Just Jeepin' > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 21:24

It’s closed north of highway 50, but I didn’t notice anything else unusual.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 21:24

Interesting. LS1tech conjecture was always that on stock lift (that should be .550 with the later factory cam) they’d still clear. It’s a huge problem with the later VVT (L92, 76, 77, 99) capable valley-cam-block combos, hence all the restrictor kits. .

Sorry if valves met pistons. That sucks.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
10/10/2020 at 21:44

Everywhere I read online, it said the LS1/6 are interference motors. Thats where I was coming from...but it seems you are pretty sure they are not in stock guise?

Chariotoflove > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 21:51

Rats. Hope it’s not too expensive.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Chariotoflove
10/10/2020 at 21:52

I think it'll be money anyways since if I'm tearing that far into the engine, it'll at least get a bigger cam

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Beefchips
10/10/2020 at 21:56

I do wanna drive to Cali...maybe next year now...

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/10/2020 at 22:46

At stock lifts we were always told they would clear on Gen3 . One guy on the HP tuners forum actually did the clay trick on one and swore he had .250 clearance on a stock cam LS2 with the 525 cam. So, it’s never even occurred to us to worry about it on stock Gen3. Pre-VVT and pre-1.8 stock rocker motor s. ( No t that it matters, but the LS2 has the smallest combustion chamber (64cc) relative to piston height— and is head-flow limited.)

My E46 has an LQ9 block with a .599 cam, 110 LSA, lots of overlap and 1.7 lifters. We built it thinking there was no interference.... but you frankly have me worried.

It’s clearly an issue on something like an L92 with the more extreme rockers and the higher lifts. And extreme cams being run always use the “inhibitor” to limit VVT range (which always feels like a kludge).

There’s certainly forum reports of broken cam timing chains, and Valves-hitting-pistons... but usually the story comes out that the “stock” motor actually was running a .650 cam and 1.8 rockers.... and pushrods too long for his shaved block deck height.

The net is that I could be all wet— but it certainly blows up our impressions of clearance in the stock Gen 3s, which is mostly what we’ve done for swaps. All bets are off in Gen 5, BTW, with all aluminum engine families and acknowledged lower deck height and higher compression to run Direct Injection.

Please keep us posted— I’d love to know if a Gen 3, in stock trim, can have it happen. I’ve got a lot of LS/LQ motors in the fleet—- and have never broken a timing chain in one— so am all ears.

Good luck and I’m hoping it’s not Worst Case Scenario.

__________________________________________
Gen 3s we use around here (or at the mountain shop) at least weekly (or projects in pipeline) include—

3X Suburbans with LQ4s, two with cams
E46 wagon LQ9 block modified to LS6 specs with big cam
280Z with LS6 and .551 cam
B-Body with LQ9 engine, big cam and Weiand intake
Blown LS1 in Roadmaster Wagon
LM7 built with short stroke crank in W201 chassis
Project 4.8L LQ/LM crank in LS block for E39 Estate Wagon
Tow Rig 1 ton with LQ9 cam in LQ4 block
LS2 in Land Cruiser (in shop)
5.3L and 6.0 (2 x) awaiting cars. (Two with T56)
L92 (Gen4) with 6L90 for Land Cruiser
Iron L76 with 6L80 for Land Cruiser

Chariotoflove > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/11/2020 at 00:05

So it’s not a problem, it’s an opportunity.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
10/11/2020 at 07:39

Yeah, im gonna pull the heads and will take a look at pistons and valves for any evidence of hitting each other...will also check if the valves are bent

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Chariotoflove
10/11/2020 at 07:40

Yes!

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/12/2020 at 20:44

Fwiw I snapped the timing belt on an interference motor once on startup with no resulting internal damage. Apparently it wasn’t revving high enough when it happened to bend or break anything. Hopefully you'll luck out as well. If not rebuild it for more rpm's and rev it to the moon.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja:
10/12/2020 at 20:46

Uum I broke the motor at the top of 2nd, on the rev limiter....

If the pistons look fine, it'll get built for more power for sure! More rpm isn't gonna happen tbh with it being pushrod, maybe 300 400 more rpm to redline at 7000

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
10/12/2020 at 20:48

Crap. Good luck to you and your wallet. Hope it’s not too terribly terrible once it gets torn down.

Still a looker though.